Three, two, one. Good evening, good afternoon, good morning.
Paul Andrigo here, host of Real Estate Podcast Show.
I'm actually part of this really great experiment that I've just been part of as of today.
It's my first time doing a podcast swap. And I'm very happy to say that I've
got Dave Dubow joining me.
And we just finished up an interview a few moments ago, and we're going to be
sort of switching sides.
And I'm going to be doing the interview on this side. So let's do a little intro
on you, Dave, and tell people a little bit about you and where your background's from.
Yeah, thanks, Paul. I appreciate being on the show. Yeah, it's Dave DeBow.
I am a real estate marketer based in beautiful British Columbia, Canada.
I've been in the real estate space since 2003 and doing this whole podcasting thing since 2018.
So these days, my main business is I work with real estate syndicators,
real estate fund managers, real estate capital raisers, and I help them to connect
with accredited investors and raise private capital.
So that's kind of my main business. And like yourself, Paul, I'm also a podcast host.
And what I've found is I found a way to monetize my podcast and use it as a
direct lead generator, direct way to connect with my ideal customers.
So that's kind of how I use my podcast in business.
Well, again, we're going to be talking a little bit about that as we did on
the previous episode we were discussing. we're going to probably be breaking
the conversation down into two things.
And what I wanted to start off with, in your case, Dave, is because storytelling
is such a big part of my approach to podcasting.
And I'm thinking it's one of the reasons,
not sure if it's the one, but it's one of the reasons that we're talking is
because someone on your team reached out to me for me, because I was talking
about the importance of storytelling in real estate.
And it's just something that I don't hear a lot of, and I still don't.
So I like to sort of do the typical sort of fairytale type story,
the before, the during, and the after, sort of the way the plots work in storytelling,
and start off a little bit about your before story.
So what would you say started off your sort of your interest in what you're doing?
And are there any like past careers? Because to me, from talking to you earlier,
it sounded to me like, you know, you've got, you know, you've got a pretty good
handle on this besides the fact you've been doing it for a while.
But you were saying that you didn't have any sort of past experience before starting the podcast.
So I guess start, you know, as far back as you can and say, what sort of,
what was the spark for you, at least for real estate?
Yeah, the spark was desperate necessity. Thanks for your honesty, Dave.
That's what makes a good podcast, by the way.
Yeah, so I actually spent 10 years living in San Jose, Costa Rica,
Paul, and got married and had two kids down there and had a language training company.
So we would teach English as a second language to executives and employees of
large companies and had a pretty good life down there for 10 years.
And then my wife, now ex-wife and myself, had two beautiful children and my
daughter was getting close to school age.
And we made the very difficult decision to uproot ourselves and move to Canada
in order for our kids to grow up and go to school here. So my wife was Costa
Rican, so I brought her to beautiful British Columbia.
It was a definite shock to her tropical system, moving from Costa Rica to Canada,
that's for sure. But we made a good decision.
Yeah. But bottom line is, I had to kind of start over again from scratch.
What were you doing at that time? You said you were doing a language.
Yeah, at a language school. So you're at a language school. Yeah,
so that doesn't translate very well to Kamloops, British Columbia,
which is where I live. So I wasn't able to sell my business right away in Costa Rica.
Had to come here. I had to kind of figure out something. I had to...
I'd never really been employed, so I was kind of unemployable.
And I looked around at different things, and I saw one of those late night infomercials.
Remember those things that used to come around in the 1990s? Love those.
Love those. You too can get rich in real estate with little or no money down.
I said, perfect. That's what I got, no money.
Carlton Sheets, is that one of the names? No, very close, very similar.
Ron LeGrand was the guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, there's another one. Yeah, okay.
Well, you know, this American get rich quick. I bought a few of those.
I definitely know I did, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So anyhow, I bought that and, you know, desperate,
I kind of had a background in marketing or at least a propensity to that.
And yeah, put it to use, did 18 deals in 18 months in the small city of Kamloops,
which sounds kind of impressive, but a lot of those deals were just crappy little, you know,
mobile homes and mobile home parts and, you know, big three to five grand here
and there. And then 35, 40 grand.
No small deals, Dave. No small deals. Exactly. But kept the lights on. Yeah.
And then kind of one thing led to another, as it always does,
Paul, and I connected with a up and coming real estate guru here in Canada,
kind of Canadian version of Robert Kiyosaki and ended up coming on board with
him as his director of marketing for his company.
So that distracted me for a number of years, kind of dabbled in real estate
off and on through there. And then, God, about a dozen years ago or so,
partnered with a friend of mine. We got into multifamily.
I started helping people with the capital raising side of things.
So the last dozen years or so, helping folks with raising private capital has been my main thing.
Hey, no, it definitely sounds like you, again, had sort of that journey.
And for me, by the way, just so that you know how connected we are on that level,
you had a language school and you went into real estate investing.
For me, it was, I was in the fitness industry for a decade and you would think
that there was no connection.
And the only thing that I can tell you is that life has taught me a lot of things,
but also, you know, other people's experiences also taught me a lot of things.
I'm a big music fan. And one of my, one of my favorite musicians is a guy named
Joe Walsh from the Eagles.
Yeah. And because I'm a huge guitar fan, but I'm also a huge fan of his solo and band work.
One of the quotes he had, and it makes so much sense is that as you look back
and he was quoting somebody else, but as you look back at your life,
you see these random occurrences.
These random events bumping into each other that make no sense at all.
And as you get older, you look back and you realize that it was all a finely crafted novel and it's.
Not, I'm not sure those are the exact words, but hopefully you get what I'm
saying is that all those random connected events, family, schools,
friends that you had business acquaintances.
And for me, it was when I was working at the gym, I was a personal trainer to
some of the most, some of the highest paid people in the city.
Like some of the lawyers, big business people, like, like these were people
where money was no object and they were only at the gym because the doctor told
them that they had to be there.
So I literally didn't, I, I, they, they did not want to be there.
So I kind of had to make the process interesting.
And when you spend eight hours with someone, Dave, it is, it's,
it's, it's basically like hyper speed training. Like you, you literally like
you, you have to figure out how to get along with people, especially if you
don't have a lot in common.
And I did not. Me being in my teens, you know, trying to spend a couple hours
a day with people who made like 500 grand a year, we had nothing in common.
But eventually, they needed something from me.
And I was learning stuff from them sort of subliminally, I guess,
in sort of the way they negotiated,
even trying to get deals on my personal training, which I would not do because
I had to pay my gym a cut and I did not feel like giving any more away than I, than I did already.
So I learned a lot from those people, but all those things you're talking about
as well, like those, those, the, the background of your journey,
I think kind of brings you to the point where, you know, you went from language
school, you got into real estate investing.
So let's talk a little bit about podcasting.
So when, when did that spark start?
Cause that's, I'm really curious about what got you into it.
Yeah, so that spark started 2018, 2017, I don't know, around there. Okay.
Because at that point, you know, I was doing different things within my business
and I was trying to sell courses and kind of coaching and different kinds of things like that.
So I was looking for ways to promote, right, to create marketing.
And a couple of things where I was, I was getting frustrated with what was the
constant hamster wheel of coming up with fresh content all of the time.
So having to, you know, come up with articles and stuff for the online and posts
and all this kind of stuff.
And it wasn't my favorite thing. I mean, it's okay, but you get burnt out after
a while coming up with that kind of stuff. Yeah.
So I saw a podcast as a way to create content that you could use multiple different ways.
Like you could do interviews and basically talk with folks and they're kind
of generating the content for you, right?
You're asking questions, but you're listening stuff from them.
And then you can spin that.
You can turn that podcast episode into different things and shorts,
reels, articles, what have you, right?
There's all sorts of different things. So that was one thing.
The other thing was, you know, I saw it as an opportunity to build my brand.
I saw it as an opportunity to kind of be seen as an expert in the field.
Also saw it as a great way to connect with other people who there might be some
synergy to do some sort of a cross promotion with.
So early days in my podcast career, I focused a lot on interviewing other people,
other what are called influencers now in the business.
And trying to use the podcast as a way to meet these folks, generate a little
bit of rapport and relationship, and then see if there was some opportunity
to do some sort of a cross promotion so that it.
We could promote their thing to my database. I could promote my course or program
to theirs, something along those lines.
So that was the first several years of my podcasting.
And it worked kind of, you know, a lot of people in podcasting,
it's the idea of, you know, build a big audience and have the call to actions
like you mentioned from time to time.
And then hopefully some people from that audience are going to reach out to
you and hopefully some of them as that's going to turn into business.
In my case, it was very, you know, hoping, hoping, hoping, and not much happening.
It was very hit and miss kind of thing, Paul. And then, so I had a typical like
weekly or I was a little bit lackadaisical with it.
So sometimes it was weekly, sometimes it's twice a month kind of show.
It was a little sporadic.
Then I was listening to a podcast and a young guy named Jamie Atkinson was being interviewed.
And he was talking about how he uses a podcast as a direct lead generator.
So he was saying, you know what? If all you're doing is focusing on building
up your audience and doing this kind of thing, it's very difficult to monetize a show that way.
And if you're trying to do, you know, advertising or those kinds of things,
you have to have Joe Rogan type numbers for it to make sense financially, right?
So he said, he had this epiphany,
where he said, why don't I just interview my ideal clients on my show?
And instead of doing onesie twosies every week or two, why don't I just really
kick it into gear and do multiple interviews a week and use this as a lead generator?
And I thought, I mean, that really kind of sucked.
It was like, wow, that is smart. So I went all in on that approach,
Paul. got a little bit carried away, actually.
So we started really focusing on just interviewing. At that time,
I was only working with what I call mom and pop real estate investors who were
just getting started with raising capital.
So, you know, folks doing fourplexes or folks doing flips or folks doing whatever.
And I just really focused on reaching out to those kind of people and got to
the point where I was interviewing 25 to 30 of them a week. A week. Okay.
That's why I said, don't do that. That's kind of crazy. It's a quick trip to
burnoutville. I did that for a while. Yeah.
And what I found is it was a great way to get in front of your ideal customer
without it being salesy. Because think of this, Paul, right?
When you invite somebody to be a guest on your podcast, you're leading with a giving hand.
You are giving them a platform. You are giving them free publicity,
free marketing, free exposure to an audience, right?
You're also giving them kudos and a pat on the back. You're giving them an opportunity
to talk about themselves,
strut their stuff a little bit and get some well-deserved kudos where they probably
don't get many at work or at home.
So it's just like this beautiful situation where you're providing massive value first and then seeing if.
Usually what I do is at the end of the podcast, after the interview is actually
finished, then it's just kind of seeing now that you've got created that rapport,
you know, the person a little bit, seeing if they've got any need around what it is that you do.
And if they do great, then you invite them to a follow up discovery conversation.
Other people call it a sales call where you show them what you do and bottom
line, turn that interview into a client. Yeah.
So that's what I started doing. And for the last four years,
five years now, I didn't even remember anymore.
That's been my number one lead generator for my business. Does that make sense, Paul?
Absolutely. Makes perfect sense. And I appreciate you, Dave.
And this is, I think, a good sign of sort of the sign of a good podcaster is
A, that you're, you're, you know, you're, you're willing to sort of,
you know, of course, discuss your, your methods.
And B, you're, you're, you're, you're doing it in a human way.
So you've talked about, you know, obviously, you know.
Things that have come along the way, learning from, you know,
the experiences, because that's the one thing you're going to do as,
you know, if you're in, again, if you're in real estate investing at all,
you know, you're going to make a lot of mistakes in the beginning.
And the good thing about going through that is that you realize that with podcasting,
it's going to be the same.
And, you know, you're going to go through all of this learning system to figure
out what is it, you know, what's the goal of this whole thing?
Because there are people, there's people that have been, you know,
been doing successful shows for years and years.
And one of them, Mark Maron, was the news story this week is after 16 years
of it, he literally said, I'm burned out.
And what you said as well, 25 interviews a week, you know, I guess that works out to like five a day.
It's, it's, it's not uncommon for us to have five clients that we meet with
a day, but to, to, you know, to sort of prepare for five podcasts,
for example, that, that might be a lot on anybody.
So it's good that you found sort of your balance with, with,
you know, what it is that you're wanting to do and, and the goal of your show.
Because again, without having a target, without having sort of an end goal of,
you know, what, what, you know, what's, what's going to be, what's going to come from it.
I don't think people are going to tune in if they don't see that there's sort
of, you know, some sort of a plot, some sort of a.
Connection uh now as far as the show goes yeah
no it's interesting so yeah my
whole focus switched from really trying
to grow the audience which of course is important the
whole focus now became let's grow the guest list let's focus a hundred percent
on who are we interviewing and how can we make them look good feel good sound
good shine on the show like that's that's the real goal there and really create
that relationship. That's what it's all about.
So I did that for a couple of years myself.
That's been the main way I've been generating clients for my marketing agency.
And then a year, a little over a year ago, I just had the idea,
well, this is working really well for me.
What if we offered this as kind of a turnkey done for you service for the kind
of people that we're working with? So I thought, okay, who would this make sense for?
And it makes sense for, in my case, syndicators.
So people who are buying big buildings, big deals, apartment buildings,
et cetera, need to raise millions of dollars from accredited investors,
fund managers, these kind of folks. they're always looking to connect with what
are called accredited investors.
So high income, high net worth individuals. These tend to be successful business
owners, successful professionals, doctors, lawyers, dentists,
et cetera, C-suite executives of big companies, these kinds of people.
So a big challenge my clients have is meeting these kinds of people.
So now what we do is we build our client a podcast. It's not about syndication.
It's not about real estate. It's not about them.
It's all directed to their ideal avatar. So I'll give you an example, Paul.
We've got a doctor that we work with. He is a doctor, a medical doctor,
and a real estate syndicator.
He buys apartment buildings with investors, right?
Now, obviously, he loves to work with other medical professionals because that's
what his background is. So we created a podcast for him called Stellar Success,
leveling up for medical pros.
Nothing to do with apartments, nothing to do with real estate,
nothing to do with any of that.
And then what we've done is we consistently get him between four and six interviews
a week that fit into his busy schedule.
So he's got two time blocks a week, you know, for a couple of hours each day
where he does these interviews back to back to back on Zoom.
Short, sweet, 20-minute type interviews. He can do, he's got 40-minute blocks.
He can do two or three each time.
And we're getting him anesthesiologists. We're getting him cosmetic surgeons.
We're getting him medical doctors. We're
getting him all of these medical professionals as guests on his show.
And he interviews them. They talk the same lingo. So he's not sounding,
definitely not sounding dumb.
And he talks to them about, okay, professional success.
And then how they, personal success, what that looks like for them.
And then financial success, it kind of gets them talking a little bit around
what they're doing outside of work to keep their income high when they no longer
want to be doing that work.
And then that leads into, after the interview is done, into his discussion,
hey, Dr. Smith, sounds like things are going really well with your business.
You mentioned you're dabbling in stocks and bonds. Are you happy with the kind
of returns and the security, the stability of those? Or is there a little bit
of room for improvement?
And then the guy's always going to say, there's room for improvement. Okay, cool.
Well, we're doing something interesting in alternative investing in real estate
with busy doctors like yourself, getting them very solid returns and tax breaks.
Is that something you might be interested in taking a look at? Boom.
Book them into a follow-up discovery call, get the things rolling,
get them converted into an investor after that.
So that's kind of the gist of it.
We build our clients a podcast platform.
Yeah. We fill it up with their ideal clientele, their ideal investor as their
guests, four or five of them a week.
And then we help them convert those interviews into capital and take care of
all the production services for them as well.
I know what, that is a phenomenal system.
I really appreciate you sharing with me and with those listening how this works.
And I can definitely find, I can definitely see somebody, you know,
reaching out to you to discuss this, whether it's a doctor, a lawyer,
whether it's a, you know, a business person that's looking to sort of,
you know, go this other direction.
And I think a lot of it has to do with your eureka moment and how you found it.
And again, I feel like this is part of this system is for each of us.
We have these moments of clarity, I guess you might call them,
where we figure out, okay, this is what's working for me.
I'm going to go in that direction. So I think that's a great way to wrap up
our first podcast together, our second podcast, but our first podcast on my show.
And thank you so much, Dave. Really appreciate your time today.
And what would be the best way for people to reach out to you and find out more
about what you do? Yeah, you know what? Probably LinkedIn.
So if they just look me up, Dave Dubow.
On LinkedIn, I think I'm one of the only ones. I'm the guy with the,
you know, I want to interview you on my show banner on the podcast there.
There's only one other Dave Dubow that I found. Okay.
There's a Toronto agent named Dave Dubow, and I wasn't sure if it was you when
I originally looked it up. And obviously it's not, so.
No, so it's the guy with the, you know, I want to interview you banner on his podcast.
Awesome. Awesome. So that's, and that's the best way to reach you.
Yeah. That'd probably be it. Yeah. Okay.
Well, again, thanks so much for your time, Dave. I really appreciate you,
again, starting the conversation originally and having Poppy reach out to me
and, you know, get this conversation started.
And I look forward to hopefully, you know, joining you again and having you
on the show or vice versa and going from there.
Awesome, Paul. Keep up the good work. Okay. Thanks, Dave.