📖 The History & Future of Podcasting
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S E63

📖 The History & Future of Podcasting

In this engaging episode, we take a deep dive into the fascinating journey of podcasting, exploring its humble beginnings and the explosive growth that has turned it into a global phenomenon. Guided by a Wikipedia article, we uncover the surprising origins of podcasting, from the creation of RSS by Dave Weiner to Adam Curry's pioneering podcast, Daily Source Code. We delve into the legal challenges that shaped podcasting's history, including trademark battles and the notorious patent troll, Personal Audio. Discover how Apple played a pivotal role in mainstreaming podcasts and the impact of their iTunes integration, while also facing backlash for their aggressive control tactics. Explore the diverse and innovative formats that podcasts have evolved into, from audio dramas and podcast novels to the rise of video podcasts. We discuss the impact of COVID-19 on listening habits and how podcasting continues to adapt to the changing media landscape. Join us as we speculate on the future of podcasting, envisioning possibilities like interactive storytelling and personalized AI-generated content. Whether you're a listener or a creator, this episode offers a captivating look at the past, present, and future of podcasts.This podcast was produced with the help of AI. 
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OK, so seriously, who hasn't just gotten totally lost for hours,

you know, listening to podcasts.

But have you ever like hit that subscribe button and wondered how did this whole

thing even become a thing?

You know, it's actually a way more interesting journey than a lot of people realize, I think.

Just how hugely popular podcasting has become is a story in itself.

Yeah, for sure. And that's exactly what we're going to like dive into today,

how podcasting started, which might surprise you. We're using the Wikipedia

article about podcasts as our guide for this, this whole deep dive.

But get ready for some unexpected turns. We're going to get into like trademark

battles, how people listen to podcasts during the pandemic, even some zombie stuff.

Yeah, we will get to the zombies, I promise. But first, we need to like set

the stage, right? What even is a podcast?

I always just thought of it as audio, something to listen to while I'm walking

the dog or doing dishes, you know. Right. It definitely started out as audio only.

But actually, there was this New York Times article recently,

and it said video podcasts are like getting super popular, especially on YouTube. Yeah, makes sense.

Video seems to be taking over everything these days. Totally.

But whether it's, you know, audio or video, what really makes a podcast a podcast

is, I think, the access. It's all about you, the listener.

You get to decide what you want to listen to and when, not like traditional

radio where you're stuck with your schedule. That freedom is definitely a big

part of the appeal, for sure.

It's funny, though. I always just figured podcasts had been around forever. I hear that a lot.

It might surprise you to know that the word podcast wasn't even a thing until 2004.

This journalist, Ben Hammersley, who writes for The Guardian,

he's the one who came up with the term.

Wow, 2004. That feels so recent considering how big podcasts are now. Yeah.

So how did it all start? Was there one genius who just invented it?

Well, it's a little more complicated than that. There were some early attempts.

There was this website, myaudio2go.com, back in 2000.

It hardly let people download news and stuff straight to their MP3 players.

That sounds so ahead of its time. Did it take off? Nope.

Sadly not. I guess the world just wasn't quite ready for on-demand audio back then.

Even though it flopped, it kind of paved the way for what came next.

Okay, so what was the missing piece?

What finally made podcasting happen? A few things, actually.

Got to give credit to Dave Weiner. He's the one who created RSS,

really simple syndication.

And that became super important for sharing podcasts.

It's kind of like he created a like a common language for computers to,

you know, share and update podcast content. OK, so RSS, that was the groundwork.

But you still need the podcasts themselves, right?

Where did those come from? That's where Adam Curry enters the picture.

August 2004, he starts his podcast, Daily Source Code.

Pretty simple show, basically him talking about his day-to-day life.

But it was huge for making podcasts popular.

So Adam Curry, accidental podcasting hero. Pretty much. His work,

along with all the RSS stuff, was super important in those early days.

And then 2005, everything changed.

Apple, they add podcast support to iTunes. That's when things really blew up. Of course, Apple.

They see something getting popular and suddenly they're like leading the charge.

Classic Apple. Yep. And while Apple getting involved definitely like made podcasting

mainstream, there were some downsides, too.

Like they kind of shut down people making their own podcasting software because

they pushed iTunes so hard. And then there were these like trademark battles.

Trademark battles. Oh, this is getting juicy.

Tell me more. Okay. So in 2005, this company, Shea Spencer Management,

they actually tried to trademark the word podcast.

They said they invented the idea. Seriously? No way. Did it work?

Luckily, no. The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, they rejected it.

And get this, they used the Wikipedia article on podcasts as, like, proof.

It showed that the word was already everywhere, so it wasn't something Shea

Spencer Management had invented.

Wait, so the Wikipedia article we're using right now actually helped keep podcasting

from being controlled by one company.

That's amazing. It's a great example of how, like, knowledge from a community

can have real-world effects.

But even though that was a win, Apple getting involved wasn't all sunshine and roses.

Yeah, I can imagine. Apple's famous for, like, wanting to control everything

in their little tech world.

What did they do? Back in 2004, right when podcasting was taking off,

Apple started going after any company that used the term POD in their, like, product names.

They were super protective of their iPod brand, like, sending cease and desist

letters all over the place. Well, sounds like a crazy time.

But why were they so obsessed with controlling the words around podcasting?

Did they like want to own the whole thing? That's the question, right?

People were saying they wanted to trademark iPodcast, iPod, even just POD.

It seemed like they wanted to control like anything that even sounded like podcasting.

That is kind of power hungry.

What happened? Did anyone like stand up to them? There's a lot of pushback against

Apple, you know, from people saying it was too much.

And finally, in 2006, after a bunch of bad press, they made a statement.

They said they wouldn't fight people using the general term podcast,

but that they still had the right to protect their specific trademarks.

So basically damage control after they realized they couldn't.

Completely dominate podcasting. Hard to say for sure, but it was definitely a turning point.

And unfortunately, it wasn't the last time podcasting had legal problems.

Things got even more complicated when this what they call a patent troll popped up. A patent troll.

What is that? And how did it threaten podcasting? Well, that's the story for next time.

So, yeah, we've talked about those like this first people getting into podcasting

and then Apple trying to, you know, like take over.

But this patent troll thing is it's a whole other level.

This company, Personal Audio, they really lived up to that name.

Even the EFF, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, they called them out as a

patent troll for what they did. Whoa, that's a serious label.

What did they do that was so bad? Okay. So back in 2009, Personal Audio,

they filed this patent and they're claiming they invented podcasting like way

back in 1996. Wait, 1996.

But that's even before that That MyAudio2Go.com site we talked about.

Exactly. That's why everyone was like, what? It just didn't seem possible.

But then in 2013, they actually, they take it further.

They start suing these like well-known podcasters saying they have to pay royalties

because they were using, quote, their technology, unquote.

That's crazy. So they're just sitting on this patent for like over a decade

while podcasting gets huge. And then they jump out and demand money.

Pretty much. It was such a clear attempt to, like, take advantage of something

they hadn't even helped create, you know, and some big names got hit with these lawsuits.

The Adam Carolla show, the How Stuff Works podcast, just to name a couple.

That's messed up. How could they even say they invented podcasting when all

that other innovation was already happening?

Did the lawsuits go anywhere? Did anyone fight back? Thankfully, yeah.

The EFF, they stepped in to, like, defend podcasting. They filed this petition

to say personal audio's patent shouldn't be valid.

Yeah. Their argument was that it was way too broad and actually was,

like, holding back the whole podcasting world. Go EFF.

What happened? Did they shut down personal audio? It was a long fight.

Adam Carolla, he actually ended up settling with them in 2014 after...

Years of legal stuff. But the real victory came in 2015.

That's when the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, they finally said that key

parts of personal audio's patent were invalid. It was a huge win for,

like, everyone in podcasting.

It meant that podcasting stayed open for everyone to use.

That's good to hear. Sounds like podcasting almost got, like,

strangled in its crib, you know?

These legal battles really show how important and popular podcasting became

so quickly. People were literally fighting for its future.

But I'm kind of curious, like beyond the legal stuff in the tech,

how does podcasting even work? How do these audio files like magically get onto my phone?

That's a great question. It might seem like magic, but there's actually some

cool tech behind it. Basically, podcasting uses these things called web feeds.

Think of them like digital catalogs, but specifically for podcasts,

they've got all the important info about each episode, the title,

the description, and like the most important part, the link to the actual audio

file. Okay, so that's where the podcast lives online.

But how do I, like the listener, connect all that? That's where podcast clients come in.

Those are those apps you use on your phone or your computer,

even some special podcast radios now. They're made to read those web feeds.

So you subscribe to a podcast on the app, and the client does all the work.

It checks for new episodes, downloads them, and makes them ready for you to

listen whenever you want. Uh-huh. So not magic, just smart engineering.

This system, using web feeds and clients, it feels like a pretty big change

from traditional radio, right?

Yeah, totally. And that's a big reason why podcasting has been so disruptive

and why it's been so successful.

It shifts the power from the broadcaster to the person listening.

Exactly. With podcasts, it's

all about me. I choose what I want to listen to when I want to listen.

No more waiting around for my favorite show to come on the radio.

It kind of makes me wonder, though, how do podcasters make money if their shows are usually free?

I mean, someone's got to be paying for this, right? That's a big question for

a lot of podcast creators.

There's a few different ones to make money from it. The most common is advertising.

Companies pay to have their ads in episodes, kind of like on the radio.

Okay, yeah, I get that. We're all used to ads. But I also keep hearing about

Patreon. How does that work for podcasters?

Patreon's a really good example of crowdfunding. But for podcasts,

it lets listeners directly support the podcasts they like.

They can pledge a little money, like, per episode or every month.

And in return, they often get like bonus content, behind the scenes stuff,

or even just the good feeling of knowing they're helping the creators they like.

That's a cool idea. It makes it much more of a like a direct connection between

the people making the podcast and the people listening.

But I'm curious. We always talk about podcasting as like audio.

Is it really only about sound? Not at all.

Remember that New York Times article we mentioned earlier? It talked about how

video podcasts are becoming more and more popular.

Oh, right. Right. Yeah. It makes sense that podcasting would like move into video.

Everyone's watching so much video these days. It's just a natural progression, I think.

And it's not just about like showing the host talking. People are doing really

creative things with video, using it to make the stories better.

We're seeing everything from like simple slideshows to full on productions with

actors, sets, you know, the whole nine yards.

So it's not just about watching people talk. It's about making it a better experience

for the audience. Exactly.

It's all about, like, what can a podcast be? For instance, have you heard of

enhanced podcasts? They call them slide casts, too.

They basically take audio and add visuals like slideshows, pictures,

even maps, and it's all synced up with what you're hearing.

That's really neat. It sounds like a way more visual, interactive podcast.

Way to learn? Like, what would that be like? Imagine you're listening to a history

podcast and like, as the host is describing a battle, a map pops up showing

where the troops were moving, the important places, you know,

or you're listening to a true crime podcast.

And when they talk about the evidence, photos from the crime scene show up.

It has a whole new layer to the story. Wow. That would be so cool.

Like an audio documentary, but way more engaging because of the visuals.

Are there other ways podcasting is going beyond just the audio? Definitely.

Fiction podcasts, for example, they're super popular. They're like audio dramas.

Full on voice acting, immersive sound effects, gripping stories.

It's like listening to a movie or play, but you get to picture it all in your head. I love those.

Yeah. It's such a different way to experience a story. Like it really gets your

imagination going in a way that like watching a movie sometimes doesn't.

And I've even heard of like podcast novels.

What are those all about? Podcast novels are kind of a mix of books and audio.

It's basically audio books, but released in episodes, just like a podcast.

Some are super produced with multiple voice actors and sound effects.

Others are just one narrator, pretty straightforward.

It's an interesting way to like build up excitement for a story.

You get hooked on the characters and what's happening, listening week after

week. I can see why that would appeal to like both listeners and authors.

Absolutely. And it's not uncommon for those podcast novels to end up as real

books, like published by traditional publishers. It's almost like publishing in reverse.

Starting with audio and then going to print. So podcasting is changing the book

world too now. That's crazy.

It's really shaking things up. And we can't forget about video podcasts.

They're like web series, but they're shared through podcast channels. Right.

I've been seeing more and more of those popping up. It's like TV shows,

but online and you can watch them whenever.

It's wild how those lines are getting blurry between different types of media.

Speaking of blurry lines, remember that zombie history you mentioned? Is that a video podcast?

It is. Dead End Days came out way back in 2003.

People consider it one of the first video podcasts. It was a dark comedy,

serialized, and you guessed it, all about zombies.

Way before the whole zombie thing blew up. A zombie podcast from 2003. That's wild.

Who knew zombies were so into new tech? It's a fun fact, right?

Shows how diverse and experimental podcasting was even back then.

And talking about experiments, there's also live podcasts.

The creators record their episodes in front of a live audience.

They even sell tickets, making the podcast an event.

Oh, wow. Like podcasting meets, like stand-up comedy or live theater.

I bet that creates such a cool energy. Exactly.

And there are events like the London Podcast Festival where podcasters get to

meet their fans, build a community, you know, celebrate podcasting.

It's amazing how podcasting went from like this niche hobby to this global phenomenon.

Yeah. In like just a couple of decades.

Yeah. And speaking of global, are there any interesting trends in how people

listen to podcasts around the world? Definitely.

Research from Edison Research shows that more and more people are listening

to podcasts all over the world.

Just in the US, over 90 million people are listening as of January 2019.

That's huge. What about in other countries? Are there any places that are like

really embracing podcasting?

Well, as of 2020, South Korea and Spain are leading the way when it comes to monthly listeners.

A whole 58% of people in South Korea had listened to a podcast in the month

before, and in Spain, it was 40%. Wow, that's a lot of people.

It seems like podcasting is really capturing people's attention all over the world.

It's so cool to see how listening habits are different in different countries.

But I'm also wondering how...

Big events affect podcasting. Did COVID, the pandemic, have a noticeable effect on podcast listening?

It definitely did. When those COVID lockdowns first started in 2020,

remember how the world just fell upside down?

U.S. podcast listenership actually went down by 15 percent. Yeah,

that makes sense. Everyone's routines were messed up. There was all this stress and uncertainty.

People's media habits probably changed a lot. For sure. But here's something

interesting. Even though overall listening went down, there was one type of

podcast that got even more popular.

Downloads of fiction podcasts actually went up by 19% during that same time.

So while everyone was dealing with a real-life crisis, they were turning to

fictional stories to escape, maybe even for some comfort.

Seems like it. It really shows how powerful stories are and how podcasting can

help people connect and escape, even when things are tough.

But this whole evolution of podcasting, how it can adapt and connect with people,

it makes you wonder what's next. Right.

That's the big question, isn't it? What's the future of podcasting? Any guesses?

Yeah. Yeah. It's a really interesting question. Podcasting's come so far already.

It's crazy. Like, what could happen next?

It is hard to say for sure. You know, trying to predict the future is always

tough. But if you look at where podcasting's been, one thing's pretty clear.

It's constantly changing, always adapting to, like, new tech and how people

listen. So basically anything is possible, right?

Exactly. Yeah. If I had to guess, though, I think video is going to keep being

huge for podcasting. Makes sense to me.

As video stuff gets easier to use, I can see more and more people making podcasts,

like experimenting with visuals, pushing the limits of what a podcast can even be.

Oh, for sure. And I don't think it'll stop at just, you know,

adding a video of someone talking.

We're going to see, I think, some really cool and creative uses of visuals to,

like, make the stories even better.

Maybe even interactive things that let people, you know, get involved with the

podcast in totally new ways. Ooh, interactive podcasts.

That's a cool idea. What would that be like?

Got any examples? Imagine like a choose your own adventure podcast.

You, the listener, you get to make choices that actually change how the story goes.

Like you could decide where the characters go, what they do,

and it would affect the whole plot, even the ending.

Wow, that would be so awesome. Like a video game, but for your ears,

you'd be way more immersed in the story for sure. Exactly.

And that's just one possibility. With AI getting so big, we might even see personalized

podcasts, like podcasts made just for you based on what you like.

Personalized AI podcasts. Sounds like something from a sci-fi movie.

Right. But it's not as far off as you might think.

Imagine there's this AI and it looks at what podcasts you've listened to before,

what you like, maybe even your mood.

And then it creates this like custom podcast feed just for you.

It could even like mix content from different creators, make it all flow together

smoothly. based on what it knows about you.

That would be so cool. A podcast feed that's like perfectly matched to what

I'm interested in, always recommending new shows and episodes I'd love.

It's kind of creepy too, though, right? Like how much does the AI really know

about me? True. There are definitely some things to think about with that kind

of tech, ethically speaking.

But the possibilities are like mind-blowing. Totally.

This whole deep dive has been a wild ride. From those early days to trademark

fights, patent trolls, zombie shows. who knew podcasting had such a crazy history.

It's been awesome exploring it all with you. And the best part is the story's not over yet. So true.

As podcasting keeps changing, who knows what other crazy innovations and new formats we'll see.

I'm so excited to see, or I guess hear what the future brings.

It really is an exciting time to be into podcasts, whether you're listening

or making them. The possibilities are endless.

Well said. So to everyone listening, next time you hit play on your favorite

podcast, Take a second to think about how it got to you from those first people

who started it all to all the creators and innovators who've made podcasting

what it is. That's a pretty amazing story.

And maybe even think about this. What part will you play in shaping the future

of podcasting? That's a great question to leave everyone with.

Happy listening, everyone.